the discussion related to the israel-palestine conflict is so absurd.

"whose side are you on?" neither of them. no sane person is on either side.

israel is a developed country with basic human rights. women are not treated like shit. the only democracy in the middle east. homosexuality is legal and the only pride march in the middle east takes place there. if palestine were to occupy all of israel's territories and hamas or fatah came to power, it would become an islamist theocratic shithole just like other arab states.

it makes me laugh when i see a queer feminist on the left defending the palestinian dictatorship and its expansion. hamas and fatah are extreme islamist terrorist organizations that would throw all homosexual feminists like you off the roof.

oh you don't think arab countries could be so terrible? go to dubai to wave the rainbow flag. go to iran as a woman without a headscarf. let's see who was right.

also the scale of demonization of zionism. seems like no one who blindly opposes zionism has read a single book in their lifetime (except probably "the protocols of the elders of zion" borrowed from arab friends and some rothschild conspiracy theory youtube videos), when there was a good reason why it was a thing.

like umm sorry, but the holocaust was the world's worst ethnic cleansing in relation to the population. before that, the jews experienced 2000 years of christian persecution. oh why? because of the christians' jealousy of the jews' status as the chosen people and because of the contradictions within the christian bible that support the jewish interpretation. such a petty reason, don't you think? christianity itself is the worst example of cultural appropriation against jews. jews were kicked out of over 300 countries. if the jews become nationalistic after that, it is completely understandable.

due to the rise of anti-semitism and neo-nazism in the 2010s, it is quite understandable why many european jews made aliyah. european jews are persecuted because of israel's actions, which then ironically forces european jews to immigrate to israel.

i also love the romani card. "the roma experienced the horrors of the holocaust and they still did not establish their own state". and? they should have. roma in the balkans live in the worst ghettos in europe. no one with a roma name will be hired in europe. if you had made a state, you wouldn't live socially segregated in europe.

apparently, nationalism is a shitty thing except when it comes to palestinians.

the ideal would be that there would be one country where both would get along with each other, but as long as there are some palestinians who support islamist groups, then which sane person who supports western values and human rights would want to give them any chance?

at the same time, do i think that israel is doing the right thing when it demolishes the military hospitals in gaza? do i think keeping gazans and west bankers landlocked is a good thing? i don't.

i think that if israel did the right thing and stop landlocking palestine, results would be exactly same as in south africa (it's ironic that i bring this up when israel is called an apartheid state anyway). when the boers and afrikaans agreed to end apartheid, the understandable hatred shown by the native population did not disappear anywhere. with it the boers and afrikaans moved out of the country to escape the hatred. i believe that the same will happen with israel. so the question is, do you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater? do the right thing, stop landlocking the country and welcome the palestinians, but at the same time very likely say goodbye to western values?